Depression: A conversation!!

Depression: A conversation!!
 
This was originally a conversation between myself and another person. The other person did not want there part of the conversation to be shared. I no longer talk to this person. However, I have still altered that part of the conversation. My part is as it was though. REAL!!! 100% REAL AND RAW!!!



UNKNOWN-why are you writing about depression in blog? Were you depressed? Are you experiencing it now?
 
Lloyd=yes, at times. A lot more in my past then now though. Ties in to how I grew up and never ever heard positives at home, always the negative. Now though I am figuring it all out so to speak and letting it all come out. I feel so much better this way...... almost free.
 
UNKNOWN -Can I pick your brain about depression?
 
Lloyd=ask anything you want...... I will answer honestly
 
UNKNOWN -I have a friend who is depressed and I need answers. I do not understand what is happening. I want to help but it only seems to make it worse or he withdraws more. Should I just back off and give space?
 
Lloyd= well, depression different for each person and often different for the person from experience to experience. The severity and length varies as well. Space, that is a very tough thing because sometimes when I pushed away I really wanted space and sometimes I really just wanted you to try harder. I know that does not make a lot of sense but it is true. If you pull away easily then you validate my feelings of worthlessness and if you push to hard then I push back because it feels good in some ways to fight, to do something. To rebel, resist.

UNKNOWN -Deep down does he want help? Numbness and sadness seem to both be here and stopping him from feeling “normal”. Could it be him pushing back?

 
Lloyd= Well, it is certainly possible. I would guess that if he were at the end of the rope that he would shut you out and push you away in some way that you have not seen before. When I got to the end of the rope back in 88 I knew, I just knew it was either find help now or not be here anymore. I found help, maybe because I didn’t want to prove my Dad right but I found help.
 
Does he know why he is depressed? If he does then unraveling it can happen with help. If he knows what starts or feeds it then you can learn to put blocks in the way to give yourself more time. I kind of think of it as a storm or tornado… you see it coming and gotta get the distance or hunker down in some shelter you can make (friends, prayer, groups, whatever) or get caught in the storm and once the spinning begins it is a lot harder to get out of it. Then you can get caught and it spins faster and faster to you feel out of control. Not fun.
 
If you can figure out why then maybe you can talk solutions. I think for me though the biggest thing was a sort of validation of my thoughts or feelings. Don’t tell me I am wrong or crazy or need to snap out of it because it really doesn’t help. Really….. I would be thinking, yeah what the hell do you know if you haven’t walked in my damn shoes. So trying to get with or understand the feelings is important. I f you snap out without understanding it at all then how do you have any idea on how to stop it next time?

There are so many books out there as well that can give him or you ideas, tools to work with and honestly a lot of them may seem odd or silly but they do work. It is finding what does work for him.
 
If this is a thing that happens often or even occasionally then seeing a counselor can help but only if he wants to and really is honest with the counselor. Faking it or holding back will solve nothing. You really have to open your closets so to speak. A physician can prescribe meds that work. People may think there is a stigma about drugs but the bottom line is what do you want out of life and who has to know? Nobody. They do work when you find the right one and the right dosage.
 
Being active such as exercise will help a lot as well. The endorphins work, that is why your body makes them in the first place. So it helps in that way, plus you get your frustrations out. And for me it helps me be tired at the end of the day so my brain does not keep me replaying anything so I can’t sleep.

Dig through my blogs and you will see quite frankly how I work some things out openly. It is real and it is true. I did not hold back. My anxiety counselor shares them with her other patients and other counselors. Some of the ideas are novel according to her and explain things in ways she never would have thought because she has not been in those shoes. Anxiety and depression are intertwined.
 
Your friend is truly lucky to have someone such as you to care because most of us simply do not. People do not try to understand and often give the simplest solution. Don’t you think we have already thought and tried many more solutions than you can come up with? It often comes across as you are not hearing me or taking me serious.


Lloyd=You can also ask whatever pops into your mind and I can answer it now or tomorrow via email.
 
Whatever works for you for the most part.
 
UNKNOWN –Meds and books… do they help? Is it possible to be happy being a “victim”? How long is too long with a therapist and still getting the same feelings? 


Lloyd=Grammar..what is that at 1am. Lol
 
You could read and read but the key is that it is not your fight to fight or your answer to find. To be supportive is one thing and to try to solve for him could allow him to be the victim as well. Some people like and some just know no other way. You found the light so to speak and I have as well. We are at different points no doubt but that is true of any “normal” person.
 
Counseling does help but again it is about being 100% honest with the counselor or doctor. If the meds are not helping, let’s find something that does or increase the dose. If I am seeing you for 3 to 4 yrs and still get stuck then sure it is time to go elsewhere and get a fresh approach. You can go to counseling and go through the motions easily. To get anywhere it is work and it is hard work as I am sure you are aware. It takes 21 days in a row of doing something to make it a habit, how long have you lived your life depressed or unhappy. You become conditioned to it and to break it is work. Happiness and positive thoughts need to become the new habit, the replacement. Same thing with finding those shelters for the storm or fire breaks to give you more time to get away. It is too easy to slip and slide into what you know even if it doesn’t feel good because you do not know how to feel something else. Happiness can feel foreign and uncomfortable

UNKNOWN- I am involved with this person, does that change the advice?

Lloyd=No and yes, is this way for him to get you closer? What do victims need? A rescuer to save them. Each time you rescue it validates the victim part and also draws you closer. If you save me then maybe you will always save me and love me. If you do not try to save me then maybe you do not love me and validate a feeling that is not being said or shared. Really tough when the significant other is the one trying to help as it is like trying to stick your finger through a spider web without touching it. It can be done but not often.
 
And you have to ask yourself and ask honestly are you to close to the situation to see the truth of it all?
 
Did this start after a fight? Did this start after a lull in the relationship? A heart to heart? Were things calm in his life? Does he need chaos? Or extreme excitement? I wrote about things like that. When it is calm, I am scared because there is always a storm after the calm in my World. I am getting better at it though.

UNKNOWN – He does not want to be like this and is sorry for being like this…..

Lloyd=Well, if he truly did not like it and wanted to change it he would reach out and try to change it. Again though if he only knows pain then it is likely he sabotages relationships for a reason. Better him to rip it then for you to rip it. He has control of it that way. I used to make bad things happen because I “knew” how to be in that state. How to be in control then and while I was sad, it was okay because it was comfortable. No anyone person could pull me out and no t a person solved it for me now. I just became tired of it. Back in 88 I refer to it as the time I broke the “mirror” and then tried to pick up the pieces. I started back then but have slipped and only really have moved forward because I am refocused because of the diabetes and just wanting to be happy. Wanting to know what it is like to laugh or to smile without the fear. Wanting to know what it is like to just be Lloyd. Not fearing that if you see the “real” me that you won’t like me. There is a certain safety in depression and pulling away.
 
Ask yourself or ask him what has he done in the three to four years of counseling? What steps has he taken? What parts of the onion has he peeled? Like an onion tears are expected. Does the medicine help? So many questions that could tell rather or not he has tried or even wants to move forward
 
UNKNOWN-Can a person be in a relationship, and still work out their shit? Can I have expectations of him? If he were into me wouldn't he be making a bigger effort to ensure I don't run away? Wouldn't he want to get better, and soon? Wouldn't he at least call or take my call? 


Lloyd=Ah get it out girl. Being bitter should tell you a few things shouldn’t it? You do care first of all and you do want to help him. You don’t really understand him right now. And there is also some fear of is it you and not him? Is he not into you because of you? Sound about right?
 
You can’t read his mind and probably wouldn’t really want to if you could.
 
Well for me going out often was an issue because I was afraid people would not like me or I had to be fake. I can’t answer for him. I am much better about that now though. Anxiety wins less now than before. Expectations, well, that goes right back into what is he used too? If for him expectations are something he has never been able to meet in his eyes for some reason then he would want to pull away from any expectations. It is the, I can’t make you happy and can’t fulfill what you need so I won’t try because then I do not fail. I will take your wrath and not the failure in front of others.
 
He has to want to get better for himself. It won’t work any other way. Not for you, not for his parents, only for himself. Yes, you can be in a relationship and work out your own individual shit. Space and freedom, trust and understanding, support and love; all allow for that but missing pieces mean less stability in that equation.
 
UKNOWN- He has GOT to break the mirror and start putting the pieces back together, keeping only the ones he needs.

Lloyd=Understand though that breaking the mirror is a task that is so scary as you have to be ready to give up the self that you know and see every single day. It is so scary to do. It is lonely as you figure it out and frustrating as you try this and that. Make some progress and then stop for a bit. The biggest thing for me was when I realized that it was okay to take two forward and one back, if the one back either allowed me to move forward again or allowed me to take a better path. If it is rushed then the mirror will fall apart.

Lloyd=Sleep is calling me. I am sorry. I hope I helped a little. Am here for you if you need me. Just need little sleep. Ask anything you want and if you need to talk in person we can figure that out as well.
 
Try to get some rest. Tomorrow will come either way but you will be better able to face it after some rest.
 
UNKNOWN-If you love a woman, wouldn't you do stuff for them (tell them you love them for example) while you're depressed? Even if it felt fake at the time?

Lloyd=Yes, sure I would do some of it but that is me and I have always wanted to please others, especially women. Maybe for him it comes into the area of expectations or sabotage of the good in his life. Or maybe he’s just not that into you.
 
Yes, the sooner it breaks the better it is for him. It will be a journey and as he explores the pieces it would likely be tough to be giving you near a 100% to be honest. That though is where some of the rest of what I said comes in if it was meant to be.
 
UNKNOWN-Isn't the love/support/trust/understanding/freedom a two way street? What about open communication; simple, right? Not calling, or taking my call isn't open.

Lloyd-Well, a phone call is not that hard or invasive either unless you have made it so. And what I mean by that is why would I call you if I feel like I am going to be interrogated about everything. Sometimes it just needs to be left alone for another time. If he feels that way then maybe he won’t call but there ways around it. Email, or message when you are not home to let you know that you are being thought of even though I am struggling. Certainly little things that can let you know what you need to know. And with a counseling session and a group session it really could be he doesn’t want to talk. However, how long does that last if these sessions are truly helping? I would gather not long as you would want to express what you have learned or any new feelings. That would certainly be part of the discussions from a therapist and likely a group. They would not tell you to keep it all in and block people out. Especially those you do care about.
 
Hey girl I hope you did get some rest. Remember today is a new day. Do not let yourself get dragged backwards by someone else woven web. Do not get too caught up in it and it is easy to do, real easy. If you do rock as you say, then keep rocking. He will either wake up and want to rock or will be content to blame himself for watching you rock on down the road. I hope I have been somewhat helpful and will help in what ways I can.
 
Expectations and sabotage, sometimes for me I always felt as though good things were either not deserved by me, had to much expectation linked to them, or it was easier for me to destroy it on my terms rather than just wait for the inevitable.